Hmm... I need to find out myself. I don't know what is the answer. I'll do some Googling and get back to you if I discover an useful answer. You should email the people at 123 reg as they probably could give you help..
Go outside and get some sunlight..
Its not about getting back slapped by your peers, it shows that that extension is constantly being searched on, which is good for all of us in the long run..
Deep breath. Its not an old extension to all people, as you are seeing daily, in how many are being registered. Its a resurgence in the market. And about time to..
I hope the sunshine was nice...
I have just visited your site and it seems you are giving out conflicting messages..
You say hand reg'ing is blanket 'crap', then you list a load of hand reg'd domains on your site that you bought?.
As someone who is new to the HostGator world I find your comments very offensive and not very understanding of how people learn this business..
Im not sure how you meant to put your point across but surely you cannot believe what you wrote above..
Maybe you are having a bad day..
I disagree , some hand regs can be decent. Plus internet evolves, and there are new things coming out...
Appraisals aside, I would disagree with you Rob that a hand reg is not worth it and that is why it is just sitting there. First of all, DM, Verisign and .TV corp calling a name a premium by sticking a premium renewal fee does not make a HostGator premium, imo. Good names drop all the time each and every day. I own many and can prove it. As far as people asking for appraisals, well that is part of being on a HostGator forum. People may ask for a number of reasons to include: just learning, self promotion, etc whatever.
By the way, DM turns has turned hand regs into premiums after they have dropped or not taken and the think it has value, would you believe that? LateNight.tv was a hand reg and I beg to differ that it is worth squat...
There are few like this guy on this forum, all high and mighty. At the end of the day mate, you are just a guy with a web site, dont keep fooling yourself, that you know the market and no one else has any idea..
Most people couldnt spell your HostGator name..
Or maybe thats just me.
Its only life, it aint that stressfull..
I took you off my favourites. na na na na..
I have successful sold my hand regs for between $100-400..
There are still some great non-premium regs out there..
But this is a forum where people learn so I crappy reg comes with the territory..
Wow where do I start.
First off hugs we all have our views this is yours and thats fine.
I personally have hand regged what *I* think is a gem and that makes me happy I personally am looking for xxxx and above and am sure in my happy little world I will get it.
I can see your frustration from many many appraisals threads but at the end of the day **dont read them**.
We all started somewhere .... Does well to always remember that.
Not a good way for the forum sponsor to ingratiate himself to potential clients IMO.
Bottom line, either read the post or pass, it's your choice. Your comment:.
Has much validity and agree with your philosophy on approaching the aftermarket..
Its seems you are trying to offer constructive advice, just your execution leaves something to be desired IMO..
We all have different learning curves and if the .TV TLD is going to continue to gain in popularity you better get used to many bad domains being reged and then people wanting to get opinions on them..
To try and prevent that is naive and foolish IMO and ultimately would hurt your site, the name pros forum, and the extension in general...
Maybe if we encourage members to put forth their very best hand reg's (one or two) once a week, the forum wouldn't be flooded with so many threads...
Look the advice in general is good (focus on quality), but not absolute..
Even today, I did some hand-regs that I would consider to be decent (and I have a great set of names already)..
If .tv becomes a huge success, one of the things that the older members will have to get used to is the next tiers of name quality becoming regged by newbies..
For example, most twoword combos that are gone in major .tlds are still available (take, as just one example, GEO+Service). You could reg these all day long. I think it is early for these names, but if .tv becomes what we hope it becomes, then someday they will be worth regging (not today, but someday).
Now, in some other cases, it will be newbies just plain and simple making mistakes. that is part of life and their learning process.
I don't view it as a big problem either way..
The key is for people to try to follow the appraisal guidelines from EQ when asking for one so that they get more out of the process...
Thanks for the visit and the comments. I have my share of crap, no doubt but I offer them for sale on my site. I am not asking for an appraisal..
I will add to my initial thread to say that I am happy to see new people coming into the space and searching for names but I also hate to see people digging for gold when the miners have been digging in the same spot for years..
Go out and BUY some gold because it is a better use of your time and money in my opinion..
Can you still find a nugget? Sure..
My beef is just with the endless appraisal threads. Even paid appraisals are worthless in most cases so free appraisals are even more unreliable...
Some of my hand regs were expired ones... (expired because not everybody is in it to sell the domain, and the owner may have lost interest in pursuing the development and let it drop.).
A HostGator may be worth a penny to some, but may be worth a lot to others..
It all depends...
I've sold "Hand Regs" costing 100$ for over 1,000$ so far this month (3 Domains - Different extensions) .... [PS - Only one of these domains was advertised "for sale" - the others were people coming to me].
While I can see your frustration - It's not holding much water with me.
- But then again , I haven't posted a HostGator for Appraisal since Dinosaurs Roamed the Forum.
I will say it frustrates me as well watching some Regs (mainly because I see wasted money) , but how many of us have seen verified sales over the past few years that made no sense either ? Were not all "Experts" for every category of domains there are..
New Technologies and New Search Interest are created everyday ... Plenty of room for everyone.
Hoping Everyone is having a Grand Day.
PSS - Moving this to the Regular Discussion section As it really doesn't just pertain to one extension IMO , And even though it may seem very negative - There is some Merit to it IMO.
Good Discussion to work out among members - Just PLEASE Do not post any examples of "Bad Regs" Folks.
Another point I'd like to make. Even though this was created in the .tv section mainly speaking about that extension , There will always be domainers speculating on keywords - I myself still have a handful of .name's.
- But as long as they pay for their Room and Board , I'm not going to let them expire. <dot>TV is being seen as the Television/Video extension now - But that wasn't it's original intended use ... Keywords/Phrases with Search value will always be reg'd whether they fit your idea of the Extensions use or not...
(NB - Regrettably with the thread move I didn't realise that the op was referring to .TV's and if he was exclusively I do apologize, my view towards .tv's are much more conservative and I haven't speculated myself for that very reason.).
Though I applaud any call for people to buy assets that are increasing in value as time goes on, searches, traffic etc as good long term investments. (My buying Philosophy) I disagree strongly with the way you put across your argument..
Tell these people why, try to help direct the people making the bad registrations and you'll see better ones. In the end though bad registrations only make those people who spend time and effort hunting down traffic, keyword, generic, practical and/or brandable terms all the better off as those domainers stand out..
While I agree 65 - 75% of new domains registered will not sell either undeveloped or have been bought on long term market trends, the very fact millions of domains a year are registered makes the odds of this particular statement being accurate ludicrous to make..
I get offers, sales, traffic, PPC and eventually affiliate income from newly registered domains. I do ignore most domains for appraisals unless I feel it is a gem in the rough or stepping in to help, might help a new buyer. However the internet is bigger than I am or you are and such a statement is quite simply founded on very uncertain ground as the industry expands and indeed we learn of new products or services..
Domainers always argue and bicker over what makes a HostGator valuable, even in generic domains most of us can generally see value in, what to value them at is extremely subjective..
I will also add that over the last few weeks I have just found a theme of around 50 domains getting average to high adwords score and fair ovt results, .com's in some of the terms are free and I can see the appeal to end users. So I will again state that while I understand your overall point that most people would be better of researching rather than buying, it's taken too far in your claims...
Saying that there anren't *any* hand regs left worth anything is not only BS, but shows to a certain degree either a general frustration that is being taken out here to vent, or, simply a lack of understanding of domains..
I hope, it is the first one.....
First, I don't see was this thread was moved out of the .tv forum..
Second, my main beef is with the relentless appraisal threads for crappy hand reg names..
Third, my comments about "no good hand regs being available" was an after thought and I did not mean to start a flame thread on that topic..
So, hopefully this post will cause some to ask 1. Is this a crappy .tv hand reg? and 2. Do I really want to post an appraisal request...
The Appraisals Thread, should be switched to the "What I Sold Thread". I think you might get a better idea of current prices for a compairable domain, without asking..
I personally see "Hand Reg Domains" totally different than Just Expired domains. We all have our ways of finding domains. I use software and a system, to catch domains as they expire. Is this considered a Hand Reged domain? It would be to some, backordered to others and something else to somebody etc..
A hand reg HostGator to me is. You come up with an idea in your head, you type in a HostGator at a registrar, It's available, you reg it. That's a hand reg! Does this make the HostGator instantly worth $1,000. I would say maybe to you, but nobody else...
You've opened up the gates now....Bet there will be hundreds of testimonials about names searched, reg'd on the spot and sold later for $xxx and higher....I know I've done (and do) that on a regular basis..
Even if they sell for $xx, that's pretty good crap when it means NewCastle Ale instead Bob's generic brew!..
One thing I have learned the hard way, is that a person should never post on an appraisal thread, unless they don't mind it turning up in a Google search with comments like "reg fee" or "less than reg fee" at some later point. Once it is "out there", you can't get it back and it is hard to sell a HostGator to someone for a decent amount if an old appraisal thread berates the HostGator name. If a hand regged HostGator name is a combination of words, as all are these days, it may show up as the first entry on Google. There it is for all the world to see..................with all the negative appraisals...
For sure Sags, it can be a very big negative ! One of the reasons I very rarely ask for an appraisal anymore.
Honestly, the appraisals section loses it's luster when you've been in this biz for a while and pretty much know the value of names...it's nice to get others' opinions on names, but often times it can be people who don't understand the market of the name or whatever and their appraisal is way off. I've had a name appraised at "high $xx unless developed" by the majority of responders sell for over $2,000, and honestly it didn't take a rocket scientist to see the value in the name!.
That said, I also don't really go there much anymore and give thoughts on people's names. I get enough PMs as it is from people asking for opinions on names, but I do agree that it seems like most people posting in Appraisals don't read any of the other threads, and even though their name is obviously about as bad as the rest, they think it's magically worth more. I'm especially not too fond of appraisals of low-end LLLLs because they're generally worth low $xx at best and yet there's about a million of them in appraisals...it's like "uhhh...look at the thread below yours, kthx!".
I can't argue that hand reg's never are worth anything. I built up my portfolio based on making nicely profitable sales on hand-regs and then moving up the ladder. I'll still look now and then for good ones. I just got an email this morning on a hand reg from about a year and a half ago, and I won't be surprised if I can get low $x,xxx for it. So yea, now and then gems can be found available (usually expired names of course), but my issue would be that while people can learn by getting appraisals on their name, they can learn even more by reading many of the other appraisal threads, and I think a lot of people posting their so-so names in there simply aren't doing that...
Its for the new ones to try and get an idea of how much their names are worth..
Like NT said, it loses it's "usability" for the experienced members.
I can understand your frustration but I'll tell you how it is from a beginners point of view. I came to NP almost a year ago today (I can tell because I'm getting my first ever renewal notices) trying to learn about domaining. I soon learned it's not like any other "hobby" because there's money involved. People are reluctant to give you advice and the only way I knew if a name was worth anything is if a senior member would ask about it in a PM while my appraisal thread stayed empty..
The only way for me to learn was to hand reg a bunch of crap and play with those names in parking, auctions, developing, etc. All in all it cost me about $1,000 for just over 100 names and I was lucky enough to get that much back from 1 or 2 lucky sales..
In the last year I finally learned enough (I hope) to indeed start looking for high priced names to buy for resell or to develop. No way was I able to do that without the past years experience. And I wouldn't have learned that from just one wrong $1,000 purchase...
How about this.
I have paid for around 10 domains in my life. ALL the rest were hand regges. Very nice ROI so far from them...
I'm always on the lookout for "the next big thing". Who'd have thought wiki.com regged well after what my limited thinking at the time considered gems, would ever fetch so much?.
I have no clue what the next wiki.com will be, but if I think I've found it, you can bet that I'll drop a reg fee on it!.
That being said, some (okay, MOST) of the stuff being asked for appraisals on is garbage. Most of them are new to domaining though, so I don't hold it against them. I've been trying to answer an appraisal or two a week, just to help the new people out. Sadly, most of them have very distorted views of what domains are worth, however, it's always nice to help someone start their domaining adventures, knowing full-well what they're getting involved in..
Well, if you don't want to see them, just don't visit the HostGator Appraisals section, simple solution.
I would have to disagree, there are still names available that can be hand regged that do have some sort of value, you just have to search harder & be a lot more picky on what you reg..
Personally I love this idea, let people have a little leeway to advertise similar names they own and you have a winner..
All boards should have a 'what I sold forum' and if we are very lucky, some small snippets about 'how I sold it'.
Congrats on the success of your "hobby"..
I started this thread to sort of protest against all the .tv appraisals and my comment about hand regs being crap is specifically directed to .tv hand regs..
This post was moved out of the .tv forum, why I do not understand..
So, I'm not against hand regs and speculation at all. I just get bothered when there when someone picks up a crappy .tv HostGator and asks for yet another appraisal...
Thats where a community comes in..
Feeling they can ask again and again respected members to help them learn domaining so that one day.. they dont reg crap..
My first HostGator sale was a hand regged HostGator that I sold within a week for $500. All of the domains in my sig are hand regs and I'm quite fond of them. I have probably sold about 30+ hand regged domains in the past year ranging from $xx to mid $xxx. Some I pick up for quick flips, others I market to end-users..
Unfortunately I'm not really able to reinvest my earnings (need money for real life stuff), so I haven't been able to really move up in the domaining ranks so to speak. For people with a limited budget and a passion for domains, hand regs are where it's at. Sure it's tiresome and you might only find 1-2 decent domains to register a week, but the key is learning what people are looking for and being able to make sales. If you can flip a hand reg HostGator in a day (which I've done), and make 4x your cost, it's a good deal any way you look at it. If you pick up something thats particularly nice, then you hold it until you get some decent offers..
Not everyone has the money to go out and invest thousands of dollars in domains, so you shouldn't be so quick to judge someone's knowledge and ability as a domainer based on this criteria. Sure if I didn't have to worry about real life money and could have reinvested, I'd probably have bought a bunch of domains by now, but would they be much better than the ones I already have? With only a couple grand to invest, probably not..
Also as an example of what you can find on a hand reg even though it saddens me to this very day... I managed to (fresh) register a person's name last June, who then ended up being involved in one of the biggest news stories of this year. Unfortunately when I had the domain, it got next to no traffic and I sold it for next to no dollars.
But I imagine the owner probably made several grand off it in PPC. And to be honest, I'm not too disappointed, because it taught me that there are gems out there and that every new day brings new opportunities...
I felt this needed a response also:.
Not to the educated, that kind of thinking to try and find a decent name is ridiculous. Instead, they use google adwords, wordtracker, ovt, sedo prices, research, rl experience, namebio prices, (yes I love that site, keep developing!), google search results, knowledge of the industry and practical experience to pick HostGator names; among many other factors, here are a few of mine to balance:.
Their gut feeling only comes into play after all of that, at least in my purchases nowadays..
People who are investing more serious money in their purchases, shouldn’t be lumped into this category either, I wouldn’t say I am up there yet but I’ve put around 5k into domains thus far and although I’ve taken some out, most of it's tied up in names. I plan to put about the same in over the next two or three months. (Thus far a few .com purchases and around 500 new names)...
I started here in February, a complete noob. My first few posts to the appraisal thread netted no responses. But by reading the other threads, I get a quick education in methods of valuating a domain. In that respect, it's VERY helpful. Agree or disagree with the appraisals, but thanks to those who are good enough to offer a figure or say the HostGator is worth nothing, but maybe if you develop it....
The challenge is keeping the thread strictly to appraisals. I've seen a lot of them degenerate into discussions about names and/or arguments why the poster thinks their HostGator is worth more than it was appraised..
Also, from what I've seen, you can analyze a HostGator up, down and sideways, but until the money hits your bank or Pay Pal account, there's no way of knowing what it's actually worth. I've watched auctions where names have gone for $x,xxx where I'd think they'd go for $xx, and vice versa..
Are people looking for affirmation? Perhaps. Frankly, the best service the appraisal thread gives might be as a reality check..
Oh, and I'm still at least 3/4 noob..
The world is coming here..
Even if you're talking about .tv, I still believe that there are decent names available to be hand regged, just got to look at 2 word names, instead of 1 word names..
The cynical viewpoint of the poster is quite apparent from the first sentence. but just like the channel on your TV if you don't like it, or don't want to see it don't turn it on, just flip that dial! We all start somewhere, and I admit I now cringe when I see a cut and paste of an appraisal done on Leapfish. Hand reges are often drops, or HostGator owners who forget to renew sometimes excellent names, with backlinks, page rank and the like. Your name exclusively.tv many would concur isint very good becuase it's hard to spell, but it dosent mean it's a crappy name. Name pros as a community has a appraisal sections to help one another, even if it means an affirmation. This also means the person asking for an appraisal shouldnt get defensive if someone says it's worth pennies.
Lighten up and climb a tree!..
Even that I would disagree with... If you look in the tv section you will find people daily registering one word.
Domains and explaining why and what they will be developed into. Some words have extremely high search responses, and no one has even touched them yet.....take a look around...
Good post. You say "Name pros as a community has a appraisal sections to help one another, even if it means an affirmation.".
However, there is no appraisal section in the .tv forum so at least half the posts are appraisals. Now if people posted or requested ideas for development, that's a different story..
I just hate to see money wasted on pure speculation. People expect to hand reg a name and then get an appraisal for $1000 or something..
Unless the "appraiser" is going to follow his/her appraisal with an offer of a similar amount, appraisals are a waste of space..
They should have their own section...
I generally don't deal in definitives, but I completely and utterly disagree with just about every statement you have made in this thread..
Quick solution: don't read the appraisal section anymore..