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Bandwidth and iPage? Help please!?

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Quick question... Bandwidth and iPage? Help please!? Hoping for any answer. Second question of mine... Problems with indexing.

I have a number of oscommerce stores. I have been using OSC for about 2 years now. My experience shows that there are undocumented problems with Search Engine indexing. Go through the forums and you will find the odd person claiming success with indexing. Different versions offer up various undocumented unclear solutions to the numerous problems. If you are concerned about indexing and how to make your iPage site Search Engine friendly then OSC will offer a serious challenge.

If you find it let me know...

Comments (184)

Good question... I dunno what is the answer. I'll do some research and get back to you if I bump into an good answer. You should email the people at iPage as they probably could give you help..

Comment #1

The is quite a bit more to Search Engine Optimization than could possibly but put into one application. And the rules are constantly changing, so honestly, it's impossible to build OSC so that it is automatically optimized for all search engines..

Anyone that is interested in gettign better indexed in any of the search engines should spend the time, and do the research to find out what you can do to make your iPage site better. There are literally hundreds of things you can do to improve your listing. There are also dozens of contributions, and threads in the tips and tricks forums that should help to this end..

It is true, if you do not do any Search Engine Optimization, you can't possibly expect to get good results in the indexes. That goes for any dynamic content application, not just OSC...

Comment #2

Wizard and Wars.

You are confusing RANKING with indexing. Yes getting a good ranking can take time. INDEXING however either happens or it doesn't. The rules AREN'T constantly changing as far as INDEXING is concerned. You shouldn't have to be a super genuis to have your iPage site INDEXED. I have created hundreds of regular html sites.

My post did not concern RANKING but INDEXING. And the base OSC package, in my experience has a problem with indexing. So I would tell anyone planning on spending the time to move their e-commerce iPage site over to OSC to take this problem into consideration. It is not insurmountable. BUT my experience has been that many of the discussions are met with responses like yours..

Comment #3

How does one tell if a iPage site is indexed well if not by ranking? Is there some other way? Is it safe to say that if your iPage site is ranked well based on keywords and phrases that it is indexed well too? Is it possible for a iPage site to be poorly indexed but ranked high in their keyword searches? If so, then what would good indexing matter? I apologize for sounding confrontational...I'm just not an expert at SEO's and such and a bit confused by it all....

This post has been edited by.

Kepa.

: 01 October 2003, 06:18..

Comment #4

The base OSC package does NOT have a problem getting indexed whatsoever, as I've tried to explain time and time again. There *are* a few things you'll want to do though to optimize HOW MANY PAGES are indexed. If you do ABSOLUTLY NOTHING, then only your main default page to your shop will be indexed. If you want all of your products to be indexed as will, at a minimum, you will need to install one of the Meta Title contributions...

Comment #5

>The base OSC package does NOT have a problem getting indexed whatsoever, >as I've tried to explain time and time again. There *are* a few things you'll want >to do though to optimize HOW MANY PAGES are indexed. If you do ABSOLUTLY >NOTHING, then only your main default page to your shop will be indexed. If you >want all of your products to be indexed as will, at a minimum, you will need to >install one of the Meta Title contributions..

"HOW MANY PAGES ARE INDEXED"? Why shouldn't every page that is different be indexed? If a SE spider simply bounces off the first page then i'd call that a problem. Meta information is important.. but most spiders parse page content and use this content to index and rank a site..

As for the other question the person above W&W had. You cannot be ranked if you are not indexed. Ranking occurs once your pages are indexed and weighed against search terms. ONE of the things that makes an SE like google successful is the number of pages it indexes thereby providing better search results. Ultimately ranking, as far as google goes is weighted more on referrer links then meta information.. But my point stands. if your pages can't even get spidered, and indexed then you have a problem...

Comment #6

Wizard and Wars,.

I just re-read your message. I am not an expert and you seem to know something I am trying to find out. And that is:.

How can I get googlebot for instance to traverse my site? I am running MS2 2.2.

What are these few things I need to do. Please excuse me if I came off as being rude. Ultimately I need my iPage site indexed and ranked. The problem appears to be the SID is still appearing in the URL. Which as far as I know was supposed to be taken care of in MS2 2.2Thanks...

Comment #7

1.) Install a dynamic Meta Tag Contribution. Each page that you wish to have indexed *must* have a unique Meta Title. This means that.

Http://www.teetimesnevada.com/.

And www.teetimevegas.com will not BOTH be indexed because they have identical meta tags. Concequently, you could be penalized by google for this..

2.) Do ONE of the following.

EITHER require all customers to have cookies enabled in order to purchase.

OR install a 'spider killer'. Additionally, do not trust the SE simulators when determining whether the spider killer is working properly..

Do that, and I GUARANTEE you will get indexed. (But you'll still need a TON of optimization to get very good rankings)..

Comment #8

Because theoretically, Google does not WANT all of your product listings in their index. In fact, they have made great strides to try to exclude listings that it determines are mearly products pages. All they really WANT in Google is the Main page. Dynamically generating Meta Titles is a SEO trick, and shouldn't really be included in the OSC core. (but the contribution is easy enough to install, and works perfectly.).

Eventually, Google will try to eliminate ALL product listings. They will include al product listings in FROOGLE, for which you will have to submit a data feed if you wish to be inclued..

Man, you're getting the FULL LECTURE today, aren't you. I've CHARGED people for less than I've given you...

Comment #9

>> The php is not seperated from the html..

That is the one biggest drawback in my opinion. Being open source, it means you can tweak anything you like to make it do anything you want, but doing so is extremely difficult due to the way the PHP logic and display HTML is mixed up in the same scripts..

Jason..

Comment #10

>Because theoretically, Google does not WANT all of your product listings in their >index. In fact, they have made great strides to try to exclude listings that it >determines are mearly products pages. All they really WANT in Google is the >Main page. Dynamically generating Meta Titles is a SEO trick, and shouldn't >really be included in the OSC core. (but the contribution is easy enough to >install, and works perfectly.).

Theoretically? The first thing I installed was meta tag mod. Check the sites. I don't consider this a trick. I don't think the people at google do either..

>Eventually, Google will try to eliminate ALL product listings. They will include al >product listings in FROOGLE, for which you will have to submit a data feed if you >wish to be inclued..

Good luck to them. Froogle was created with other financial interests in mind..

>Man, you're getting the FULL LECTURE today, aren't you. I've CHARGED people >for less than I've given you..

Ahhh don't flatter yourself. You haven't told me anything I didn't already know. Your sugesstion to install burt's SID killer on top of my MS2 2.2 installation is debateable. My original question was regarding MS2 2.2 and it's ability to drop SID's thereby allowing proper spidering. I appreciate the discussion though..

By the way, Google rankings NUMBER ONE weighted criteria is referrer links. But none of this matters if googlebot cannot spider your iPage site thereby indexing your pages which THEN and only then allows them to be weighted and ranked...

Comment #11

I give up..

Hard to help anyone that doesn't listen very well...

Comment #12

Just to recapp our conversation.....

1.) You said you didn't know of many people that had success indexing on Google..

I pointed out the everyone, including yourself will be indexed by google without doing anything. I illustrated this point by showing specific examples, and even showing you that you were already indexed, even though you claimed not to be..

2.) You said that the BASE OSCommerce isn't indexed by Google. I proved that it was..

3.) You asked why every page in OSC isn't indexed using the base OSC without altering hte meta tags. I carefully explained why, and how to fix it..

4.) You asked how to get googlebot for instance to traverse my site? I provided specific examples of what to do..

5.) You asked why Google only appeared to be coming to the first page of your site, and then leaving. I explained, in great detail how the Google Dance works, and why you were seeing that kind of behavior..

The bottom line is, the only thing that might improve base OSC as far as getting more pages indexed, is dynamically generating Meta Titles. And although it is not in base OSC, there are several very simple contributions you can install that will achomplish this..

SIDs have nothing whatsoever to do with getting indexed. All I said is that *if* you do not have a spider killer installed (I understand that *some* of the MS2 snapshots noow come with it) then you should install one. But it will *not* help more pages get indexed, it'll only help more pages get indexed correclty..

Link Popularity is *very* important to Google. In fact, that may be the reason that some of your newer sites are NOT listed yet. If no one is linking to your site, google can't assign a PR, and therefore won't index you..

However, META TITLES are also very, very important. If 2 or more pages have identical META TITLES, only one will be indexed..

Period...

Comment #13

Although I'm not a computer expert from what I read through wizardandwars post is that by having different meta tags you could get a good indexing??.

So by installing the meta tags contribution you are lets say ok ??..

Comment #14

Just a couple of comments. All IMHO of course....

1. You do not have to have a different title for each page - Google will list multiple pages with the same title. No problem at all..

2. Meta Tags are outdated and useless - don't bother unless you really feel the need to waste time..

3. Google..

A) Most important is to get sites linking to you, without this Google WILL list you, but it will take longer to get listed..

Utmost importance is the <title> tag. This should change for each individual product - though this is NOT necessary to get good rankings..

C) By far THE most important is your iPage domain Name. Use a iPage domain Name that equates to the products or services that you are selling..

D) Use Product Titles that are descriptive..

4. Install allproducts.php to give spiders something to link off of.

5. Do NOT use any form of redirect.

6. Install your shop in the root directory of your webspace, not in /catalog/ for example..

There are more tricks to getting good Google listings, but that's your lot...

Comment #15

Hey Burt,.

I noticed in your post you said....

However, then you go on to say.....

Which is part of the Meta Tags. So I suppose that your post could be a little misleading..

Regarding the indexing of more than one page with the same Title, I suppose that it *is* possible, however, in my experience, a shop without unique <title> tags for each product will not be indexed , other than the main page. I've seen this phenonenon on at least a half dozen occasions. Could you perhaps show an examle of a iPage website that has more than one page indexed with the same title?..

Comment #16

I do not class <title> as a meta tag in the strict sense of the word..

I cannot post you an example as I would then be accused by the Moderators of posting a commercial URL. So I will PM you - if you could then post back here to confirm that you have indeed seen a URL with lots of pages with the same <title> that would be great...

Comment #17

". Meta Tags are outdated and useless - don't bother unless you really feel the need to waste time..

3. Google..

A) Most important is to get sites linking to you, without this Google WILL list you, but it will take longer to get listed..

Utmost importance is the <title> tag. This should change for each individual product - though this is NOT necessary to get good rankings..

C) By far THE most important is your iPage domain Name. Use a iPage domain Name that equates to the products or services that you are selling..

D) Use Product Titles that are descriptive.".

A man who truly understands Google.

If you don't believe Burt, go to Google and CHECK why some of the top listed sites are listed at the top. The meta tags are no longer vital, it's the title that Google has been paying most attention to...

Comment #18

If Google only wanted to index your main page and not any others, it could quite easily do that by not spidering any links from that page to any other pages on the same site, and it would be impossible to have your products indexed, period..

Anyway, is everybody in agreement that the SID in the URL's causes major problems for Google and other bots because it looks like (rightly) the page is generated dynamically?.

Should be easy to fix - the URL rewriting function should only append the SID if the session cookie is new right?..

Comment #19

*Thread Split*.

Maybe next time we can all stay on topic?.

Matti..

Comment #20

KEPA.

>How does one tell if a iPage site is indexed well if not by ranking? Is there >some other way? Is it safe to say that if your iPage site is ranked well based >on keywords and phrases that it is indexed well too? Is it possible for >a iPage site to be poorly indexed but ranked high in their keyword searches? >If so, then what would good indexing matter? I apologize for sounding >confrontational...I'm just not an expert at SEO's and such and a bit >confused by it all....

YOu can tell if your iPage site has the potential of being indexed by the way a spider interacts with your site. If a spider can't or doesn't hit your pages then you can be sure they won't be indexed.. since the spider never sees your pages. If on the other hand, you can see in your logs that a spider has hit ALL of your pages then chances are those pages will be indexed...

Comment #21

Hi All,.

My most important question remains. Is my iPage site being spidered? and then consequently indexed. I've got conflicting answers.. Burt says he has tried and no SID's are appearing in the URL's of my site. Someone else says they are seeing the SIDs. I am seeing the SIDs.

So I need to confirm. But it is my guess that 90% of the people using OSC also then need to confirm this. Unless they don't care about their iPage site being spidered and consequently indexed...

I will restate that when you build a regular html iPage site by default (under most circumstances ie: no redirects) spiders will completely traverse your site, sucking up every page. Many people installing OSC believe the same thing is true by default of an OSC installation. And in fact MS2 2.2 is kind of advertised to encourage that type of spidering interaction. I am still not convinced this is this case. I also notice there is a robots.txt file that comes with the MS2 2.2 distribution. This file resides in the includes directory and from what I can tell is not referenced by ANY php file in the distribution thereby making it completely useless.

I will continue looking for info and I will share it with who ever is interested. I totally appreciate everyone's comments and ideas. In particular, Wizard and Wars and Burt's thanks guys! Hopefully future versions of OSC can further encourage direct spidering and indexing by as many SE's as possible...

Comment #22

Well I am in agreement based on my own personal experience. And I can only speak for Milestone Release 2It appears from my logs and my tests (tests can be incorrect as I have yet to find a simulator that imitates googlebot) that this is the case. Most who have replied to me aren't running MS2 2.2, and are modified with one of the SID removing contribs...

Comment #23

Just wanted to post back confirmation, as per Burt's request, that he has proven that you can in fact have google index more than one page, with identical Titles, which I had not thought possible..

This is proof that Google WILL index ANY OSC 2.2 MS2 site, without ANY optimization, whatsoever. OSC does NOT have any problems whatsoever getting indexed, period..

There are alot of things you can do to improve your rankings, however, they are not required to just get indexed...

Comment #24

Thanks W&W..

110% agree with what you have written above. Osc does not have a problem with getting listed onto any Search Engine - it simply is a matter of time and patience...

Comment #25

I have read this thread top to bottom 3 times. There are some interesting points made here. What is lacking is SPECIFIC help. "Adding an allprodicts.php so the engines have something to base off of" (Sorry Burt, yours just stuck in my head.

) It would be REALLY nice for those of us who do not completely understand this Search Engine Optimization thing to have a WIKI thread explaining all the wonderful suggestions that have been outlined in this thread..

You all have touched on some great suggestions. Frankly, for this to help me, I need specifics. Here is my situation:.

I have MS1..

1) I have installed Linda's meta tag generator contrib..

2) I need to know how to change the <title> to each of my products so I can be indexed on all my products..

3) I need to know how to install this "allproducts.php" page..

4) I need to know which SID killer is the preferred one to use..

I am willing to be the OSC dummy here to get this info posted to this thread. I think it is wonderful of all of you to make these suggestions. I am taking copius notes. I just need a little clarification. I was visited by Inktomi and Google in the past 3 days. I got 1 page view from both.

If someone would either take the time to post these answers here, or PM me with the information, I would be MOST appreciative..

Thanks again for a great thread, and I hope more information surfaces on SE submission. This seems to be the "trick" to getting rich with web commerce..

BTW, here is a sample of the Google search Engine Optimization Tool spidering my site. as you can see, it is NOT pretty..

Thanks in advance for any help that will be offered..

Mark..

Comment #26

Tell me why then, there is a search engine friendly configuration option in osCommerce?.

I challenge you to go to Google and find me a link to a page that has parameters in the URL ... there aren't any..

Either Google ignores every page that has URL parameters, or it indexes the page and strips off the parameters. The latter would make no sense whatsoever, since the page that the Google user links to often won't be the same page as was indexed..

I don't mean to offend you wow, but you post with an air of knowledge and superiority when the content of your posts is really questionable...

Comment #27

Hmm no edit on this forum ... my apologies wow, that still came across as offensive..

What I mean is this - could we have less dogmatic allegiance and more empirical investigation in this discussion?..

Comment #28

Don't know. Utter waste of time it being in there. Do you reall ythink that Oscommerce has 100% perfect code and that everything that is there works as intended?.

There are thousands of pages listed in google with parameters! Try this:.

Http://www.google.com/search?as_q=product_...earch=&safe;=off.

That URL might wrap, so beware..

As above, you have been proved incorrect in your assumption..

There are only a few people here who make it their business to know Search Engines. W&W is one of them, and it's a good job that their are knowledgable people about who have gone one step further than just using Oscommerce for a Store..

Hth..

Comment #29

Waste of time. No Search Engines of any importance use the meta tags that are produced by this contribution..

Search for "title" under my username and you should find a quick code solution to enable this..

Look in contributions area. Follow the instructions - it's about 5 mins work and does the job very well..

Opinions vary. Whichever one works for you is best - I prefer my own solution which can be found in the "tips and tricks" forum somewhere. Do a search on my username...

Comment #30

[/QUOTE]Hi Digger,.

I guess I'll cut you a little slack becuase this thread has been split, but I did post, earlier in this thread, the reason why there is SEF links in OSC to begin with. It has to do with how Search Engines USED to behave. This is NO LONGER a concern, and honestly, hasn't been for quite some time..

And I posted a link to a search in google that shows 1600+ links in google with URL parameters. Here's just a few examples..

Http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie;=UTF-...ardsandwars.com.

Http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr;=&ie;=...G=Google+Search.

Http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr;=&ie;=...wind+prophecies.

Http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr;=&ie;=...buy+tron+2.0+pc.

I don't mean to offend you, Digger, but I post things which I know from experience. But when you post things like.

It makes you sound like you don't know what you're talking about, which in this case, would be true...

Comment #31

Absolutely not and I never suggested it, which is why I am spending so much time customising and improving the code, looking into these types of questions, and taking part in discussions like this..

Oh yes! I stand corrected, with respect. I'm glad you proved me wrong..

The biggest issue with osCommerce and spidering then, must be all those damn nested tables giving poor ranking results..

Over to development forum to discuss upcoming templating development .....

Comment #32

I used to be involved in SE research circa 1997 and haven't had anything to do with it since, so that makes sense..

Tell me, are there any remaining major search engines that either drop off or penalize pages with URL params?.

Touche! None taken..

This post has been edited by.

Digger.

: 03 October 2003, 16:41..

Comment #33

Robots.txt files are not meant to be referenced by any PHP files, they are picked up automatically by robots..

I could see a spiders.txt file, but not a robots.txt file. I don't know what a spiders.txt file is, but I shouldn't assume that it must have the same format as a robots.txt file...

Comment #34

Thanks for the help Burt! I wil get on these changes right away! I will let you know how well an AMATEUR at search engine optimization does with a little help from his friends..

Thanks again!!.

Mark..

Comment #35

Very good question!.

Honestly, I don't know the answer. I've only researched perl, asp and php. There may be other languages that they do still have trouble with...

Comment #36

Um, I dont see what perl, asp and php have to do with it ....

HTTP as a protocol is abstracted from language - whether a iPage site is perl, asp, php, python, jsp, ada, smalltalk or cobol should make no difference, except where the web server itself is implemented in that language, and even then it's still nothing inherently to do with the language...

Comment #37

Well, you're right, it probably means nothing..

Until very recently, in the Google's faq about dynamic indexing, they listed a bunch of different types of extensions that they were ok with indexing the dynamic pages of. However, today, when I went back to refamiliarize myself with them, they have changed the page completly..

As for the major search engines, I've found a few that do, and a few that don't. The one's that don't are less and less each day..

The one's that I've found that appear that they do not index dynamic pages....

Altavista.

This post has been edited by.

Wizardsandwars.

: 03 October 2003, 18:48..

Comment #38

Ah, I get what you're on about now - the appearance of '.php' or '.asp' in a URL that the robot is indexing..

Personally, I don't agree with the principle of having filename extensions in a URL. IMHO they should always be abstracted from the filesystem, even if only apparently. That way, there would be no way of telling if a page was generated dynamically anyway, and language would become even less of an issue..

Now, that might be a worthwhile SEF contribution even if the existing one isn't. Perhaps I will take a stab when I have some spare time...

Comment #39

Not really. There are some things you can do to an Oscommerce iPage site to get better/more ranking but nested tables does not cause much of a headache...

Comment #40

They are for robots.. but shouldn't it be in the webroot? or catalog root? the one I am talking about is in the INCLUDES directory.. So which spider is going to find it? I don't know about you but I don't have any links to my includes directory. Besides robots.txt should be in root.. the only place a spider looks...

Comment #41

The spiders.txt file is a file included in OSC2.2 MS2 that is used by the 'spider killer' process..

Your spiders.txt is not supposed to be ready by the spiders. I believe it's supposed to include the User Agents of all of the spiders you wish to ensure do not have a SID appended to the URLs...

Comment #42

Hello Everyone who cares..

What is the purpose of worrying about ranking if your iPage site cannot be spidered? I have spent the last few days checking and re-checking my site. I can honestly say that ANYONE who is simply assuming OSC to be spiderable, consequently indexable, SE friendly out of the box is doing themselves a disservice..

If you are one of the FEW to have your iPage site successfully indexed then you are smart to have spent the time making it work. Unforetunately for those that have not had success there is no "fix" available. There are suggestions and possible fixes. nothing more. Do not assume anything. This is my experience..

There is DEFINETLY no concrete one patch fixes all way to make your store spiderable by all SE's. It does not exist..

Forget about ranking.. seriously. People arguing about ranking when their sites cannot even be spidered.. it makes no sense..

Rw..

Comment #43

Back to my original point..

It is not , atleast in my version of MS2 2.2 not referenced by ANY file whatsoever. By html_output or anything else. So in other words.. it's a ghost file. sitting in a directory serving no purpose at all..

Rw..

Comment #44

Sorry I just double checked.. it is in fact referenced in the application_top.php file...

This is a little re-assuring....

Comment #45

Absolute rubbish. I can show you a iPage site that is in Google that;.

- has no pagerank.

- has no backlinks.

- is not a real store (still has the default products).

- has never been submitted to google.

- has never been promoted anywhere.

- has no extra code to enable easy "spidering".

So how, according to your research has that iPage site made it into Google?.

Google will add your iPage site without any problem whatsoever - just go and submit the main page..

To get better rankings, then yes there are many changes you can do to enable this. You need to search the Forums and apply the knowledge you find..

To anyone reading, rwfresh is muddying the waters with his comments which serve no valulable purpose. His comment "If you are one of the FEW to have your iPage site successfully indexed", makes zero sense, as there are thousands of Oscommerce sites successfully listed in Google. It takes one quick search to find this out...

Comment #46

What in the world are you talking about??.

Your OWN sitre has been indexed already...

Comment #47

For those of you that this guy is scaring to death, lets take a look at evidence..

This guy has been aruging for over a week now that Google does not index (meaning include in their index at all) OSC sites. He is dead set that he can not get indexed, and that the vast mojority of people who use OSC will not get indexed..

This is absolutly false. Don't let this guy scare you, he doesn't know what he's talking about. His OWN iPage site has been indexed by Google..

Http://www.google.com/search?q=teetimesnev...=UTF-8&filter;=0.

If you have manually submitted to Google, give Google enough time (up to 3 months) then Google WILL index you. That means you are better off worrying about how to improve your rankings, than you are worrying about some imaginary non-existant prejudice Google has against dynamic content websites and OSC..

Best of luck to all...

Comment #48

Hi,.

For those of you that aren't scared by reading messages and people's experiences, take what I have written and simply add it to the confusion already surrounding the topic. Burt and W&W need only read the volumes of messages in this forum for themselves. W&W why not check out those links you posted.. What are they? 4 HTML links that don't exist on my iPage site anywhere. So you considered that to be indexed? Why would I? It WILL be but it's not because I untarred and submitted. I wish it were that easy.

I'm sorry if this bothers you guys. I think this topic and the many others in the OSC forum speak for themselves. I am not trying to SCARE anyone. Anyone who takes a look at the spidering of their own iPage site MAY be having a very similar experience. I'm not stirring the pot I am expressing what my experience has been.

But posting a link to google that reveals 4 totally irrelevant broken links to pages that don't exist on my iPage site does not re-assure me or prove anything. I think it serves only to make a point. ANYONE CAN and SHOULD research the indexing of their own iPage site as well as spider activity on their own site..

Rw..

Comment #49

Well, I agree that everyone *should* research indexing as much as possible..

By posting links in search engins that list you, I'm showing everyone that these seach engines HAVE been to your site, and in some cases, have listed your pages in their index. I'll bet that given time, ALL of your pages will be indexed. These things don't happen overnight..

Here are more of your listings from other listings..

Http://www.alltheweb.com/search?avkw=fogg&...da&_sb_lang=any.

Http://search.msn.com/results.asp?RS=CHECK...=teetimesnevada.

Here's a question for you. How long has this iPage site been up? How recently have you submitted to Google?..

Comment #50

Hmmmn, I just checked out your domain, and it appears that the iPage domain was purchased on 6/30/2003, however the nameservers were not updated until 8/15/2003..

Perhaps the problem here is that you have not given the search engines sufficient time t oproperly index you. Google themselves will tell you that getting indexed can take up to 8 weeks. I've had websites that took up to 12 weeks to become fully indexed, including every product page..

Currently, Google is in the middle of their 'Dance'. It will probably be a couple of more weeks until they start putting together the new index. When that happens, it's my bet that you will have new listings...

Comment #51

I can guarantee that I've read whole lot more messages about Search Engines than you and I am not confused in any way, shape or form. The best and only advice I can give to people is "go read the forums, apply the knowledge to your store"..

A lot of people including W&W and myself have made hundreds of posts regarding Search Engines - 3 or 4 of the longest Search Engine threads were started by me or W&W, and there is a wealth of good information available on them..

#######################################.

If people would take the time to read up within these Forums, they would have #1 rankings for.

Every one.

Of their product pages. However, most people want to take the shortcut and not bother learning. That's fine for now, but in the long term it's bad news. I get inundated with emails and PMs from people who try to take the short-cut way to success - I, W&W and others have spent enough time coming up with ideas to get people better ranked - you just need to find the advice here..

Moral of Story: If you can't be bothered to learn or don't understand what to do to make.

Your.

Oscommerce store get on those all important Search Engines, then you really shouldn't be in business on the web..

Unfortunately you are stirring the pot as you are taking.

Your.

Experiences with Search Engines and applying them to all Oscommerce stores..

But when anyone points out that your arguments are fatally flawed you either do not answer at all, or move onto something entirely different..

I notice you didn't answer my point about this Oscommerce Store I have that is in Google but doesn't appear anywhere else, no backlinks, pagerank, never submitted etc etc etc. How do you explain this?.

I would be very interested to hear your views as according to your experiences this cannot happen.

Unfortunately I cannot post the URL publically as it is on a test iPage domain (and developers are not allowed to post test domains). But I can if you require proof that it exists Private Message you...

Comment #52

Hey Burt relax..

[QUOTE]Unfortunately you are stirring the pot as you are taking.

Your.

Experiences with Search Engines and applying them to all Oscommerce stores. [ /QUOTE].

I suggest you re-read my messages. I have made it clear what version I am running and what my experience is. I have not applied it to ALL OSC stores. But I will hazard to say that quite possibly a large number of installs are lacking in spiderability. Certainly all those older versions of OSC that have not applied a SID killer.. and quite POSSIBLY some newer versions that should've addressed the issue..

[QUOTE]I notice you didn't answer my point about this OSCommerce Store I have that is in Google but doesn't appear anywhere else, no backlinks, pagerank, never submitted etc etc etc. How do you explain this? [QUOTE].

I didn't answer because you were responding to someone else's comment. not mine. But since you asked I would say that the above happened simply because of the version you are running. Your version allows good indexing. that would be the most obvious (albeit simplistic) answer..

Just incase I am still being misunderstood. MY iPage site appears to be having problems being spidered. I am running MS2 2.2. I would think that others might be having the same problem. By problems I mean the iPage site is not being completely traversed by a number of SE's bots..

I could just as easily say that you are implying all OSC installs are good to go right out of the box. But I don't need to because clearly you recommend reading through the forums looking for info on the issues of spiderability, indexing and ranking..

Thanks for your comments. And perhaps it's just my particular install. It is totally possible.

Rw..

Comment #53

How do you know? It doesn't appear that way to me..

No, he is implying that all OSC installs WILL be indexed, given time...

Comment #54

I suggest you re-read my messages. I have made it clear what version I am running and what my experience is.[/QUOTE].

Earlier on in the thread you said this:.

In this post you are categorically stating that ".

ANYONE who is simply assuming OSC to be spiderable, consequently indexable, SE friendly out of the box is doing themselves a disservice.

". Further you go on to say ".

Forget about ranking.. seriously. People arguing about ranking when their sites cannot even be spidered.. it makes no sense..

".

Here you are.

Implying.

That.

ALL.

Out of the box installs will never be indexed, let alone ranked..

You are scaring people into believing that Oscommerce is broken with regards Search Engine compatibility/indexing/ranking (whatever term you want to use) - when it isn't..

It's very easy to get an Oscommerce iPage site into Google with no work whatsoever - particularly MS2, which has an inbuilt "Spider checker/killer" - MS2 is the one "out of the box" install which will strp SID (so the Spiders don't get stuck in a maze) without any extra code additions at all..

User Error is not the same as Oscommerce Error. We all know that Oscommerce has it's problems - these can be fixed with extra coding. User Error is different, it's not fixable so easily and people just go on believing what they want to believe without looking at proof positive that what they are saying is incorrect..

Your iPage site is stripping SIDs. Your iPage site will be picked up by Google and other Search Engines. Your iPage site will be ranked by Google. Patience you need </yoda>.

I challenge you to wait 8 weeks from now, then come back to this thread and see what's happened to your iPage site with regards Google etc. And at that time you will kick yourself for starting threads that really never needed to be started (all this conversation exists elsewhere in the Forum). We go over Search Engine stuff about every two months or so..

I am not implying at all. I am stating it as fact - all Osc installs are good to go right out of the box..

To be.

Indexed.

(which is what you are worrying about) takes no work other than an install "out of the box"..

To get good.

Rank.

Takes extra work, most of which has.

Zero to do with Oscommerce.

(eg collecting backlinks, submitting Dmoz and so on)...

Comment #55

>I am not implying at all. I am stating it as fact - all Osc installs are good to go >right out of the box..

Well we will just have to disagree here Burt. People can and should find out for themselves. And again I am talking about having their iPage site spidered..

As for the OSC fear conspiracy.. If people get a little scared and as a result re-assure themselves with some checking of their own, that is something I am not going to worry about..

The SE discussion will never end. As more people realize the importance. OSC can be further fine tuned, made even better and more SE friendly and i'm sure it will be...

Comment #56

Rich, you still havn't shown any evidence whatsoever on why you think your iPage site isn't going to be spidered..

What makes you think you are having problems? I've already shown your iPage website listed in several search engines. What evidence do you possibly have that shows that you are encountering difficulty?.

This conversation was NEVER about whether people should or should not investigate on their own how to optimize for search engines. Nor was it EVER about wheter or not OSC could be better optimized..

In fact, this conversation was ABOUT THAT VERY THING when you decided to join in and start questioning why were were talking about optimizing when we wouldn't even be indexed!.

Again, I'll ask, because you still have not answered. What makes you think your iPage site will not be indexed?.

This post has been edited by.

Wizardsandwars.

: 08 October 2003, 13:30..

Comment #57

We'll agree to disagree, though I'm unsure on exactly what.

You want answers?.

I think I'm entitled..

You want answers?.

I want the truth!.

You can't handle the truth!.

Good movie...

Comment #58

1. My logs.

2. Current results on Google..

3. The fact that 1 out of ten times, using my browser and other simulated agents I can SEE the oscid showing up for all links..

I don't expect you to waste your time confirming but I have to. If you want, try going to my sites using your browser. Open your status bar and check the links for yourself. About 1 out of ten times the oscid's are showing. Is this normal behaviour? I am not signed in nor have a created an account on these sites..

Rw..

Comment #59

You said yourself that Google has visited your home page, and left. This is normal procedure for Google, as I've explained. They WILL be back with a deep parsing bot that WILL spider all of your pages. This DOES NOT happen every day, only about once every 8 weeks or so..

It can take up to 3 full months for your pages to be displayed in Google. Since you're saying that their deep bot has not arrived yet, I would say that you are still a couple weeks away..

This is normal behavior. The only time SID asre supposed to be omitted is if the USER AGENT is the same as that of one of the USER AGENTS in your spiders.list...

Comment #60

Does anyone know.. how much longer the google Dance will be going on? I ask this, because I was visited last week by the first google spider. The second spider has not come yet. While I am excited at the prospect that I may in fact be indexed, I would like to know at what point to be disappointed and try resubmitting..

I am prepared ot be patient, but I was wondering if anyone had an idea of the window..

Thanks!.

Mark..

Comment #61

I don't think you read my message. Use your browser. WHATEVER browser you want. Connect to one of my sites. Keep your status bar open. You will notice that approximately 1 out of ten times the OSCID is showing in the urls.

OSCID are randomly appearing in the url's about 1 out of tens times. This is happening using internet explorer. Internet explorer is not in my spiders.txt file...

Comment #62

Rich,.

Are you suggesting that a SID is not supposed to be generated when a "customer" like me visits your site? I would suggest that you might want to think about what you are saying. Your customers NEED SIDs (at least theoretically). You only want them killed when a BOT/SPIDER/UserAgent visits your iPage site to prevent the SID from being included in the index..

Mark..

Comment #63

No. I am suggesting irregular behavoir. Sometimes the SID shows and sometimes it does not. I have also just tried a few more spider simulators. Other strange behaviour is the SAME spider simulator is showing some product links with SIDS and some without. About 1:4 ratio.

Ie: all links are shown and in the same returned list approx 1 out of 4 show the session ID. This tells me that the spider conditions are behaving irratically. This is hard to blame on the simulator. It is simply making requests. My install is returning mixed results under the same conditions..

Also I have just tried adding Mozilla and MSIE 6.0 to the spiders.txt file (for testing purposes) and I am still getting SIDs. Maybe I am missing something....

In your admin, Sessions -> check user agent (Validate the clients browser user agent on every page request) .. What do you all have this set to?..

Comment #64

Just my 2 pence worth, but I have found the overall structure of Osc to be highly suited to excellent search engine performance..

Yes, it is necessary to 1. install the header tags contribution, 2. add a allprods.php, and 3. kill spider SID's, but then Google et al should index your iPage site excellently. I have carried out these basic steps on numersous Osc sites and always found the results to be excellent (once googlebot has done the rounds)..

After that, it is a case of tweaking your content and the structure of various pages as the urge takes you to increase the number and position of keywords, etc, to keep at the forefront of the google rankings. It is a competitive market out there, and many sites are well optimised..

My main point is that I have Osc sites, modified with the 3 main steps above, performing excellently in google, msn, etc, (top 5 rankings for hundreds of product searches). The overall structure, with the large numer of context-sensitive cross-links, is very good indeed. Anyone that is not finding this to be that case must be doing something fundamentally wrong somewhere, or be being too impatient...

Comment #65

You're right, I didn't completly read that line. I apologize..

I did visit your iPage site again, and here's what I see. On the firt click into the 'Category' box, your iPage site is appending the SID. On subsequent clicks inside the 'categories' box, it does not. If you click elsewhere on the site, it does not, but if you return the the categories box, the first click one again appends the SID..

I remember having this exact same issue, however, I don't remember what the cause is or how to fix it, to be completly honest..

However, this one link with the SID will not have any effect on your iPage site being spidered. I promise. Even if google was getting SIDs in ALL urls, you would STILL get indexed, just wilth SIDs in the URLs..

It normally takes about 3 weeks from the time the initial bot come to your shop, until the deep parser visits. However, I've seen it take as long as 3 months before. Boogle tinkers with their system constnatly, and sometimes you just have to be patient...

Comment #66

Google has reached it's data indexing capacity of 4,294,967,296 (2^32) URLs. Each page is given an ID (and now they have reached the limit, no more new pages are being added)..

This is why it is increasingly difficult to get pages listed by Google and is the reason why they are running an old database. It's also the reason (IMO) why the deepcrawl update hasn't happened for quite some time..

I would assume that the Google Engineers are implementing an extra byte for the page IDs, this would then mean that they have double the capacity, which would last for an extra few years, taking into account the Froogle feeds (where all shops will eventually end up)..

By the time "a few years" is up, the Internet will have moved on to new Technologies etc..

In short, it's my opinion that Google is not accepting product_pages on sites submitted within the past couple of months..

I'm happy to be proved wrong, if someone can find product_info.php pages listed in Google (on a iPage domain that has been in existence for less than 3 months) please either PM me or post to this thread..

NOTE: Oscommerce Sites already listed in Google are fine (for the time being), but if I were you I would be getting a Froogle feed ready as your sites will get decimated shortly..

Hth..

Comment #67

Wow, I didn't know about the indexing capacity? Do you have a link to an article discussing this?.

I have been aware of Google's desire to move all product listing pages to Froogle, keeping on the root listings in Google. I also know that Froogle is now moving into it's final Beta staging, meaning that we can probably expect Foogle to go live soon, maybe as soon as Christmas..

I'll research any new websites that have product pages added within the last 3 months, and see what I can come up with...

Comment #68

W&W or Burt:.

My iPage site was created in April of this year and I have never to this date submitted to google or other SE. But I have plently of pages and product pages listed on google. However, my PR is "Current Page Not Ranked by Google". So it appears that I have been indexed, but not ranked. I am curious what this means. Is it just that they have not got around to ranking my iPage site yet, or what? I do have some other sites linking to mine that have PR of 4 or 5..

Also I read on another forum that "Normally spiders cannot visit secure pages since they cannot supply the security credentials necessary for such pages". Is there any validity to this? Can spiders index https sites?.

I just added the Links Manager in an effort to start building more links, but how do you convince someone to link to you if you have no ranking?.

Thanks, Kirk..

Comment #69

Don't apologize. Thanks for taking the time to have a look. I appreciate it. I am still looking into it. I am going to check out my categories.php file. Somewhere maybe in some code I have added I might be firing up the session outside of the applicationtop file.

Hopefully tonight I can start by writing a simple script or app that I can use to simulate different user agents. Once this is done I can really take a look at what's happening. Something is fucked on my sites though. The first pages are being indexed.. which is better then nothing at this point..

Thanks again..

Comment #70

BTW, I am using OSC2 MS2 right out of the box. I do have Meta Tag mod and Allprod and AllCat pages also...

Comment #71

Well,.

My new iPage site on my new server on my new IP has product_info pages:.

Http://www.google.com/search?q=scomo%20sit...=utf-8&oe;=utf-8..

Comment #72

Interesting, thanks. You have 134 products listed of 4217 products in your store - so at least we now know that Google is starting to get back on track..

Thanks for posting...

Comment #73

I just launched my OSC iPage site just over 4 weeks ago with a iPage domain name that I've had for a while, but redireced to another iPage site (a bunch of static pages with a dreadful agora shopping cart). I'm excited and thankful to say that my iPage site jumped up from pages 5-6 to pages 1-3 on each of my key searches (on Google and the major engines) and every product that I have searched thus far are also indexed with 60% of them being on pages 1 or at the top of page 2 I have around 1000 products. I did install each of the mods wizard had suggested and thanks to him, my iPage site is listing higher than ever. Thanks W&W for your help as it is much appreciated! I hope I'm not jinxing myself by being so ecstatic, but I can't help it. Everyone should do what was suggested as the mods for indexing really do work. I was skeptical at first too...now I"m off to Froogle it!.

Kepa..

Comment #74

I just wanted to followup by also saying that the reason why I noticed to even check the indexing was because my traffic AND sales literally tripled over the weekend and I wanted to know why. YIPPEE!..

Comment #75

I submitted my iPage site to google two month ago. It was successfuly indexed. but with only 21 pages. I checked it today and I found google removed most of my pages and the only things left are.

Chinese Art,Chinese Gifts,Oriental Gifts,Asian Art,Asian Gifts.

Tibetan Masks. Tibetans call the mask "Par". It is a kind of artwork.

From religion art and worthy of collection. Every temple will ....

Oriental-art-gifts.com/shop/default.php?cPath=3_44 - 37k - Cached - Similar pages.

Chinese Art,Chinese Gifts,Oriental Gifts,Asian Art,Asian Gifts.

Chinese Painting. Next to the supremely difficult art of calligraphy, the.

Chinese have for centuries seen painting as the highest form of art....

Oriental-art-gifts.com/shop/default.php?cPath=46_48 - 37k - Cached - Similar pages.

Oriental-art-gifts.com/shop/default.php?cPath=27.

Similar pages.

Oriental-art-gifts.com/shop/default.php?cPath=2_19.

Similar pages.

Oriental-art-gifts.com/shop/default.php?cPath=3_13.

Similar pages.

Oriental-art-gifts.com/shop/default.php?cPath=2_18.

Similar pages.

Oriental-art-gifts.com/shop/default.php?cPath=2_32.

Similar pages.

Oriental-art-gifts.com/shop/default.php?cPath=46.

Similar pages.

Oriental-art-gifts.com/shop/default.php?cPath=22.

Similar pages.

Oriental-art-gifts.com/shop/default.php?cPath=22_34.

Similar pages.

I used to have 21 pages indexed and each of them with title and descriptions. but now I have only 2 pages with titles and descriptions. I used to have some keywords such as tibetan mask ranked at 1 with google. but now I have nothing. Why?..

Comment #76

Just follow up. Google never indexed all my pages. none product page. Have you had your product pages indexed?..

Comment #77

I'm pleased to report that my latest Osc iPage site was submitted to Google 4 days ago, it has now been indexed and ranked with a PR of 0 (not bad for the first day in Google)..

I come top on the majority of my favoured search terms, and 7th (of 6,690) for my very favourite search term. And this on the first day.

How:.

1. I optimised my iPage site title appropriately.

2. I gave it a link from a PR4 page..

3. I made 100% sure the HTML code is valid.

4. Installed SIDkiller..

Hth..

Comment #78

And before I go home, I can tell you that I had 103 unique visitors from people searching on my favoured Search Terms in Google. That's results from the database, not Adwords. 103 in 8 hours ain't half bad.

Result!..

Comment #79

It may help to install the mod that changes the title of your product pages so that Google doesn't think each page is the same. It definitely wouldn't hurt. Also the meta tag mod that dynamically changes them. I don't recall the name of either one, but I'm sure they helped me. Sorry, I can't give you the details as I'm swamped right now. You may also want to consider placing your shop in the root directory if you can, don't know what effect that will have, but I did that as well. I've read various pros to doing so...

Comment #80

My froogle products are up, so looks like they are quick in getting data feeds processed...

Comment #81

Indexing is definately a bit of an issue..

I have a program that reads meta tags and will display exactly what google finds on a page. I have run it on my iPage site and the result is VERY bad compared to HTML sites..

If anyone wants an example, post your URL and I will post a few examples of the results..

James..

Comment #82

Since any spider simulator you might use can ONLY ready the HTML output of the php, your comparison would seem to be unfounded. You are comparing html to html..

Google does *not* have a problem indexing the php product pages in OSCommerce, as has been deomonstrated in these forums, over and over again...

Comment #83

I strongly suggest installing some of the mods that have been contributed for such an issue. It is a little bit of work, but like I've just witnessed for myself, my iPage site is indexed and ranked higher than it ever has. And I've run simulators too, and they are all very good. My suggestion is to install all of the contribs mentioned above, included the allprods and all categories mods, along with dynamic meta tag and product page title mods and you will see results. What have you got to lose? It's going to take work, which has been the underlying message in all of these posts some work, reading, testing, and paying close attention. My iPage site is currently #24 out of 310,000 for my favorite search term, and #9 AND #10 (yes twice) out of 80,600 for my second favorite which are my main traffic drivers...

Comment #84

NO problem, I just didn't want a whole slew of new people wandering in, and seeing this post, and starting to ask all of the same questions again. That's exactly how these SEO posts always end up...

Comment #85

I tweaked my pages and am now showing as #1 for my favoured search term after yesterdays freshbot update...

Comment #86

Just a very quick update. I totally dropped out of Google yesterday, and couldn't find my iPage site this morning either. Nightmare!.

But I just re-checked and am now re-listed in Google with a freshbot date stamp of 25/10/2003 - so it's yesterdays content..

I just went through my transfer-logs, and can see Google ripping apart my site, going through product pages one-by-one, so I am hoping that in a month or so each product page will also be listed..

As of right now, I have only the default.php homepage listed, but the search terms I can be found on are fantastic.

No lower than #18 on any of my 5 favoured search terms and my favoured search term I now come in at #1..

Comment #87

Yeah, now if they'd just update their directory, and backlinks, I'd be a happy camper...

Comment #88

Wizardsandwars is correct on this matter.....

I have several pages indexed on all search engines, so I know it works... Using Search-Engine safe URLs is key to the success...

Comment #89

It didn't take a month.

I have 61 products in my shop as of right now. I now have 60 of those listed in Google. The one that is not listed was added to the Store after Googlebot visited..

Can anyone now say that Oscommerce is not spiderable by Google ?

Comment #90

Hello everybody!.

Great posts, very helpful:).

I installed most of the contribs suggested by you. But I have one question, which may be stupid, but I will ask anyway, and please excuse me if it will be a repeat of questions posted in other forums....

I have been index in google as of today but only my home page, which is not OSC....

The shopping cart is instaled in the catalog directory.

Http://www.naturalhe...and.com/catalog.

My question is if it makes a difference if I submit.

Http://www.naturalhe...and.com/catalog.

Or should I submit.

Http://www.naturalhe...talog/index.php.

Can google read index.php as index.html?.

Thank you for your replies..

If you could check out my site, and possibly make any suggestions I would appreciate it..

Thank you in advance.

Michal..

Comment #91

It can read both equally as well..

However, if you are already indexed by Google on your hompage, and your ship is linked from there, you don't need to submit at all. You only need to have patience...

Comment #92

I have two URLs. The first one I had before I realize the name was TM. I then choose a different URL. Since I still own the first URL I did a forward to my main URL. I discovered that my first URL (forward) has been indexed, but my main URL hasn't. Do you think Google will index my main URL or am I in trouble? I'm not planning to renew the first URL after it expires.



Www.partspluswest.com = forward URL has been indexed.

Www.gnarlyparts.com = main URL has NOT been indexed.

I never submitted partspluswest.com to any search engine to how they got that URL is a mystery to me..

Thanks.

Dave..

Comment #93

I have a huge store (100,000 products), and allprods.php doesn't seem to be the "ideal" solution in this case as the page would be a tad long.

Any suggestions, on how to get some reasonable iPage site map or allprods page(s) to work for a iPage site this large?.

Maybe a "category list" iPage site map would do, just listing the 1,000 categories or so we have?.

If you have any thoughts or ideas, please let me know!.

Thanks,.

Dan..

Comment #94

Honestly, the Allprods page isn't even necessary. Bot can transverse the category tree just as well as customers can...

Comment #95

Hi All.

Well. I've just spend about an hour reading this thread and I have to say - wizards and wars and burt - man, if I knew as much as you two my head would explode! this is probably one of the most useful discussions in this forum ... many thanks to both of you..

Where can I get your SID killer burt?.

Stuart..

Comment #96

Just a update...

I am at month 5 now.. Some spidering activity. None of my sites have product pages spidered. A few category pages have been spidered from a few sites. I do have a number one listing for one iPage site and one search term. Also a few of my sites have been completely wiped from google..



Burt: How do you get your site(s) to be visted by google so frequently? Links from highly ranked sites? Any other techniques?.

I can see that some of my sites visited say 4 months ago, index page indexed only and google has still yet to returned for the elusive "deep indexing" ...

Thanks!.

Rw..

Comment #97

I wonder why this is. I must have had blind luck upon indexing, because all 400 pages of my iPage site are indexed somewhere or another...

Comment #98

I have one link from a PR4 page..

My iPage site is optimised for Google spidering - using a base install will not get you every page listed - you will get results like you are seeing - default page and a few categories - this will increase each time the spider visits by one or two pages..

For best results you need to do about another hours work on your store..

Hth..

Comment #99

You must know by now I am not using a base install. If that's not clear then it can be now. I am not using a base install. I have meta tags contrib installed..

If by "an hours work" you mean something other then meta tag contrib please let me know..

I know that my iPage site periodically puts OSCID in the URL for no reason that I have been able to determine. I built my own simple app to confirm this after I started this thread... Happens about 1 out of ten times..

Rw..

Comment #100

I would suggest to you that the install you are using is flawed (either by work you have done, or by work you have not done) and needs more doing on it to make it at least Google compatible..

If you do not have the time or knowledge to do this yourself then I suggest spending a few dollars to get someone to do it for you..

Obviously whatever you have done so far has been ineffectual..

I'll give you one tip:.

"meta tags" - utter waste of time with regards Google..

Hth..

Comment #101

Google is very weird, sometimes you can get the luck of the draw, and other times, you can be out in the rain waiting for the googlebot..

This post has been edited by.

Jrwrestling.

: 22 November 2003, 15:27..

Comment #102

Well if I was convinced that anyone else would be doing anything different then what I am doing already then I might be willing to part from some money. I know Google is concerned with the Title tag which the meta tag contrib handles. And bonus for SE's that do still use the other meta tags..

My problem is with the random inclusion of the sid in my url's. I am using the stable MS2 release.. I haven't changed anything that would effect the html_output..

I have a simple app that will work for anyone who is interested in testing their own iPage site for SID inclusion. App allows you to set UA and view results of requests..

Like I said a few of my sites have number one listings.. i'll continue to fumble around with it..

Thanks..

R.

W..

Comment #103

Therein lies the problem that you (and lots of other Store Owners) have. It's not enough to "fumble around with it" - either you want to be a success or not..

If you want to be a success, then employ someone as a consultant for a few hours who can sort all your problems in one go. Successful people know when to pass tasks to other people who are more experienced..

If you want to continue to bash your head against a brick wall, then continue to "fumble around"...unsuccessful people think they can do it all..

I think that there is a mentality of "the software is free, so why should I pay for an expert to help me out"...in the long run that expert could get you more sales, quicker..

Why don't you email one of the Core Team and ask them to help you - they are all there to do commercial work..

Hth..

Comment #104

Can I ask, Burt, are you referring to this bit of code:.

I've implemented 'dynamic' Meta Tags by using the title of the products and the description of the product..

In product_info.php find:.

$location = ''; (its about line 17).

Directly after it add:.

Code:.

If (isset($products_id)) {.

$product_info = tep_db_query(\"select p.products_id, pd.products_name, pd.products_description from \"TABLE_PRODUCTS\" p, \"TABLE_PRODUCTS_DESCRIPTION\" pd where p.products_id = '\"$HTTP_GET_VARS['products_id']\"' and pd.products_id = '\"$HTTP_GET_VARS['products_id']\"' and pd.language_id = '\"$languages_id\"'\");.

$product_info_values = tep_db_fetch_array($product_info);.

$keywords = strip_tags($product_info_values['products_description']);.

$keywords = substr($keywords, 0, 250);.

}.

Find the <title> </title> line and replace it with:.

Code:.

<title><?php echo TITLE; ?> | <?php echo $product_info_values['products_name']; ?></title>.

Directly after your new title line, add:.

Code:.

<meta name=\"keywords\" content=\"<?php echo $product_info_values['products_name']; ?> | <?php echo TITLE; ?>\">.

<meta name=\"description\" content=\"<?php echo $keywords; ?>\">.

No work, and a good solution. All you have to do is make sure you give your product a good descriptive name, and a great description....

That's what I found after quite a bit of searching. This seems to be for OSC 1.1 or something. How can I implement the same in OSC 2.2 MS2? I would be greatful if you could help me out here!.

And a another question about 2.2 MS2: it seems to contain a spider killer already, I assume this works a fine as the others?..

Comment #105

Juha, that is the code I'm thinking of, but it appears to have a lot of "slashes" added. I do not use MS2 myself, so cannot help with integration of this code into it off the top of my head, but it should be quite straightforward..

The original thread is here:.

Http://forums.oscommerce.com/index.php?sho...=28168&hl;=title.

MS2 does contain a Spider Killer - I have not personally tested it. There are some threads about it not working though (though this is likely to be user error than code error)..

Hth..

Comment #106

I am on these forums looking for people that can help. Looking for people that appear to understand the problem I am having. A talented developer with EXPERIENCE with my problem might show up. I don't really know of any other way of finding such an expert. I'm not willing to pay someone 1000's of dollars I simply don't have for something that does not completely solve my problem. And if that's what it takes I will continue to work on it myself.

I feel very satisfied with the results I am getting thus far..

When I started this thread I was (and still am) looking for help. So far, after over 100 responses, the most useful info given is to use unique title tags. Something I had already implemented before I started the thread..

If you want the honest truth I don't have the resources to pay for guarentees. That said, if you do know someone who will go through my OSC install/modifications and optimize it (with documented changes and verifiable results/improvements) for 500 bucks let me know..

Rw.

P.s. I am not a store owner...

Comment #107

Check your PM..

(BTW folks, there is no way in hell I'd charge him that much scratch for something this easy)..

Comment #108

You are absolutely right, the slashes messed the code up for me. I used the original code from the link you gave me, and placed it where you said..

Works beautifully, thanks very much Burt!.

I'll have to test the spider killer when I get my shop on the server then, now I'm working on it using a local machine and EasyPHP..

Thanks again!..

Comment #109

My iPage site now has a PageRank of 3. Which is not bad for a iPage site that is less than 3 months old...

Comment #110

Great results, Burt! - That's encouraging..

To track SE spiders, try a script called [i]SpyderTrax[/] written by Darrin Ward - find it.

Here.

..

A freshman at PHP and the structure of OSC, I stuck the html that calls the script (read the SpyderTrax docs) at the end of my Simple Template System (STS) sts_template.html, so I can see spider activity for every page..

Question 1: If I wasn't using STS, where would I place html code that I want included on *every* page?.

Question 2: Using 2.2 MS2, I'm confused about the SID Killer vs. (or addition to) SE Friendly URLs option in Admin. What's the best way to go?..

Comment #111

<snip> tried to edit previous post to correct closing [/i] - disregard.

This post has been edited by.

Miami_seo.

: 16 December 2003, 04:47..

Comment #112

How do you ask someone to check your iPage site is correct for search engine spidering, I never seem to be able to be referred to a product page even when I search the exact product title on google although the iPage site has had these test products for almost 3 months. do some of your experts do a chargeable service?..

Comment #113

I have just checked and I am being indexed ok by msn but not by google. is this something to do with internal google current procedures. any advice much appreciated..

Comment #114

Rich,.

It appears that Google has now pretty thoroughly indexed your iPage site as all of your product/course pages have been indexed as can be seen here:.

Http://www.google.com/search?q=teetimesnev...0&sa;=N&filter;=0.

It is no wonder, however, that it is probably being indexed quite poorly though. It was mentioned several times way back in this thread that you need to have "unique" page titles for each page. Currently your iPage site has "<b>'course name', Tee Times Nevada, Golf in Nevada, Nevada Golf Courses, Book Nevada TeeTimes"</b> as the title for each page. The only unique part is the name of each course and then you have all of that other "crap" in the title which only diminishes the weight given to the words you are really after for that particular page. Let's say for instance someone were to put "Bali Hai Golf Club" into the Google search box- your iPage site would not be found (actually I checked the first 100 returns and gave up). Try changing the title to something like "Bali Hai Golf Club" or "Bali Hai Golf Club Tee Times" and lose all of the other stuff.

You do not get bonus points for trying to include all of your keywords in the page title of every page on your site, actually in many ways you get penalized. For the words such as "Nevada Golf Courses" etc. try to create one page for each of those titles and just use one title per page not all of them on every page. Also while not nearly as important your "description" for each page is the same <b>"Golf course in the USA - book online Golf course in the USA - book online"</b> Now what in Sam Hill does that have to do with the Bali Hai Golf Club or any of the other courses listed on your site? Nothing and Google will recognize that. I could also not find an allprods.php file on your iPage site so you really should add that contribution which will list each course name along with a link to each individual course page.

HTH..

Comment #115

Hello,.

I have a question to all the savvy people here..

I noticed that when I search google for.

Http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr;=&ie;=...lthland.com+top.

I get about 118 results. I searched for top because it appears in all osc pages in the breadcrumbs (I have other pages which are not osc as well)..

When I search for.

Http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr;=&ie;=...hland.com+cpath.

I get about 555 pages, but most of them are supplemental results, meaning that google doesn't consider them to be worthy of showing in most searches..

I reference many products from other pages as www.naturalhealthland.com/catalog/productinfo.php?product_id=xxx.

All of these have been indexed properly, but the other ones haven't..

When google hits my catalog and picks up links from categories they show up with the cpath= in the url..

WHat I did was excluded the cpath reference in the products_listing module. And now the links are "clean"(without the cpath)..

My question is will this have an impact on any functionality, since I don't have any subcategories, I don't think it will..

Could anyone please comment on this..

Thank you.

Michal..

Comment #116

Actually, it will probably help slightly, because length of URL counts slightly in their indexing algorythim..

However, There's about 100 other things that I notice right off the bat that are MUCH more important, and would help with your indexing tremendously, beginning with.

Untique titles for each page. I'd worry about those way before I worried about having cpath in your url.

[Edited: Actually, I do see now that your have added uinuq titles, they just havn't shown up in the index yet. However, you should put your targetted keywords *before* the name of your store, for maximum results].

This post has been edited by.

Wizardsandwars.

: 13 January 2004, 17:41..

Comment #117

I have had my iPage site up and running for a couple of months. After reading many of these post about search engine optimization, I need advice about what is considered a "REDIRECT"..

My attention has been placed on my product descriptions. And my question is should I include manufactures product URL?? Should I include Adobe PDF file references for product spec?? Are these considered "REDIRECTS"..

Or am I missing the meaning of what "REDIRECT" is??.

Thanks.

Doug..

Comment #118

I was just reading this post it is verry helpfull but what is a spider killer where do I get one is that what prevent spider sessions is in admin asc ms2? thanks..

Comment #119

Sorry did not read the hole post man that is a long discucion forget my above question..

Comment #120

Thank you WizardsandWars for looking..

What I was concerned about was that I had different links pointing to the same page. I know that it's not good to have that for google. Let's say I have an item which is in 5 different categories. It has links to it from all of theses categories - using different cpath attributes..

I was wondering what function the cpath had, since removing it didn't change any functionality..

BTW: Nature's Sunshine are the keywords I'm looking for..

Do you think that there's anything else that I should do?.

Thank you.

Michal..

Comment #121

Thanks Justin, Sorry for the late reply. Things have been improving greatly. We are running a bunch of other teetimes sites as well. I will definetly cut the excess crap off the titles as you suggested. Thanks!..

Comment #122

So does this mean in the "/ public_html" directory. Seems to be my root directory far as I can tell although there is a "/" directory before it..

How would we move our untire iPage site over form /catalog to the root directory. Would we have to reinstall and then copy over our modified files?.

Also I have version 2.2Does this mean I have 2.2 MS2 or does just having 2.2 adequate. How do we tell?..

Comment #123

You would just need to change two files - following copying all to root:.

Includes/configure.php.

Admin/includes/configure.php..

Comment #124

Root includes/configure.php.

// Define the webserver and path parameters.

// * DIR_FS_* = Filesystem directories (local/physical).

// * DIR_WS_* = Webserver directories (virtual/URL).

Define('HTTP_SERVER', 'http://www.yesudo.com'); // eg,.

Http://localhost.

- should not be empty for productive servers.

Define('HTTPS_SERVER', ''); // eg,.

Https://localhost.

- should not be empty for productive servers.

Define('ENABLE_SSL', false); // secure webserver for checkout procedure?.

Define('HTTP_COOKIE_DOMAIN', 'www.yesudo.com');.

Define('HTTPS_COOKIE_DOMAIN', '');.

Define('HTTP_COOKIE_PATH', '/');.

Define('HTTPS_COOKIE_PATH', '');.

Define('DIR_WS_HTTP_CATALOG', '/');.

Define('DIR_WS_HTTPS_CATALOG', '');.

Define('DIR_WS_IMAGES', 'images/');.

Define('DIR_WS_ICONS', DIR_WS_IMAGES'icons/');.

Define('DIR_WS_INCLUDES', 'includes/');.

Define('DIR_WS_BOXES', DIR_WS_INCLUDES'boxes/');.

Define('DIR_WS_FUNCTIONS', DIR_WS_INCLUDES'functions/');.

Define('DIR_WS_CLASSES', DIR_WS_INCLUDES'classes/');.

Define('DIR_WS_MODULES', DIR_WS_INCLUDES'modules/');.

Define('DIR_WS_LANGUAGES', DIR_WS_INCLUDES'languages/');.

Define('DIR_WS_DOWNLOAD_PUBLIC', 'pub/');.

Define('DIR_FS_CATALOG', '/secure/k/kysecure.net/yesudo.com/');.

Define('DIR_FS_DOWNLOAD', DIR_FS_CATALOG'download/');.

Define('DIR_FS_DOWNLOAD_PUBLIC', DIR_FS_CATALOG'pub/');.

One directory up includes/configure.php.

Dir called test..

// Define the webserver and path parameters.

// * DIR_FS_* = Filesystem directories (local/physical).

// * DIR_WS_* = Webserver directories (virtual/URL).

Define('HTTP_SERVER', 'http://www.yesudo.com'); // eg,.

Http://localhost.

- should not be empty for productive servers.

Define('HTTPS_SERVER', ''); // eg,.

Https://localhost.

- should not be empty for productive servers.

Define('ENABLE_SSL', false); // secure webserver for checkout procedure?.

Define('HTTP_COOKIE_DOMAIN', 'www.yesudo.com');.

Define('HTTPS_COOKIE_DOMAIN', '');.

Define('HTTP_COOKIE_PATH', '/test/');.

Define('HTTPS_COOKIE_PATH', '');.

Define('DIR_WS_HTTP_CATALOG', '/test/');.

Define('DIR_WS_HTTPS_CATALOG', '');.

Define('DIR_WS_IMAGES', 'images/');.

Define('DIR_WS_ICONS', DIR_WS_IMAGES'icons/');.

Define('DIR_WS_INCLUDES', 'includes/');.

Define('DIR_WS_BOXES', DIR_WS_INCLUDES'boxes/');.

Define('DIR_WS_FUNCTIONS', DIR_WS_INCLUDES'functions/');.

Define('DIR_WS_CLASSES', DIR_WS_INCLUDES'classes/');.

Define('DIR_WS_MODULES', DIR_WS_INCLUDES'modules/');.

Define('DIR_WS_LANGUAGES', DIR_WS_INCLUDES'languages/');.

Define('DIR_WS_DOWNLOAD_PUBLIC', 'pub/');.

Define('DIR_FS_CATALOG', '/secure/k/kysecure.net/yesudo.com/test');.

Define('DIR_FS_DOWNLOAD', DIR_FS_CATALOG'download/');.

Define('DIR_FS_DOWNLOAD_PUBLIC', DIR_FS_CATALOG'pub/');.

This post has been edited by.

Yesudo.com.

: 25 February 2004, 02:11..

Comment #125

Root admin/includes/configure.php.

// Define the webserver and path parameters.

// * DIR_FS_* = Filesystem directories (local/physical).

// * DIR_WS_* = Webserver directories (virtual/URL).

Define('HTTP_SERVER', 'http://www.yesudo.com'); // eg,.

Http://localhost.

- should not be empty for productive servers.

Define('HTTP_CATALOG_SERVER', 'http://www.yesudo.com');.

Define('HTTPS_CATALOG_SERVER', '');.

Define('ENABLE_SSL_CATALOG', 'false'); // secure webserver for catalog module.

Define('DIR_FS_DOCUMENT_ROOT', '/secure/k/kysecure.net/yesudo.com/'); // where the pages are located on the server.

Define('DIR_WS_ADMIN', '/admin/'); // absolute path required.

Define('DIR_FS_ADMIN', '/secure/k/kysecure.net/yesudo.com/admin/'); // absolute pate required.

Define('DIR_WS_CATALOG', '/'); // absolute path required.

Define('DIR_FS_CATALOG', '/secure/k/kysecure.net/yesudo.com/'); // absolute path required.

Define('DIR_WS_IMAGES', 'images/');.

Define('DIR_WS_ICONS', DIR_WS_IMAGES'icons/');.

Define('DIR_WS_CATALOG_IMAGES', DIR_WS_CATALOG'images/');.

Define('DIR_WS_INCLUDES', 'includes/');.

Define('DIR_WS_BOXES', DIR_WS_INCLUDES'boxes/');.

Define('DIR_WS_FUNCTIONS', DIR_WS_INCLUDES'functions/');.

Define('DIR_WS_CLASSES', DIR_WS_INCLUDES'classes/');.

Define('DIR_WS_MODULES', DIR_WS_INCLUDES'modules/');.

Define('DIR_WS_LANGUAGES', DIR_WS_INCLUDES'languages/');.

Define('DIR_WS_CATALOG_LANGUAGES', DIR_WS_CATALOG'includes/languages/');.

Define('DIR_FS_CATALOG_LANGUAGES', DIR_FS_CATALOG'includes/languages/');.

Define('DIR_FS_CATALOG_IMAGES', DIR_FS_CATALOG'images/');.

Define('DIR_FS_CATALOG_MODULES', DIR_FS_CATALOG'includes/modules/');.

Define('DIR_FS_BACKUP', DIR_FS_ADMIN'backups/');.

One directory up admin/includes/configure.php.

Dir called test.

/ Define the webserver and path parameters.

// * DIR_FS_* = Filesystem directories (local/physical).

// * DIR_WS_* = Webserver directories (virtual/URL).

Define('HTTP_SERVER', 'http://www.yesudo.com'); // eg,.

Http://localhost.

- should not be empty for productive servers.

Define('HTTP_CATALOG_SERVER', 'http://www.yesudo.com');.

Define('HTTPS_CATALOG_SERVER', '');.

Define('ENABLE_SSL_CATALOG', 'false'); // secure webserver for catalog module.

Define('DIR_FS_DOCUMENT_ROOT', '/secure/k/kysecure.net/yesudo.com/test/');located on the server.

Define('DIR_WS_ADMIN', '/test/admin/'); // absolute path required.

Define('DIR_FS_ADMIN', '/secure/k/kysecure.net/yesudo.com/test/admin/'); // absolute pate required.

Define('DIR_WS_CATALOG', '/test/'); // absolute path required.

Define('DIR_FS_CATALOG', '/secure/k/kysecure.net/yesudo.com/test/'); // absolute path required.

Define('DIR_WS_IMAGES', 'images/');.

Define('DIR_WS_ICONS', DIR_WS_IMAGES'icons/');.

Define('DIR_WS_CATALOG_IMAGES', DIR_WS_CATALOG'images/');.

Define('DIR_WS_INCLUDES', 'includes/');.

Define('DIR_WS_BOXES', DIR_WS_INCLUDES'boxes/');.

Define('DIR_WS_FUNCTIONS', DIR_WS_INCLUDES'functions/');.

Define('DIR_WS_CLASSES', DIR_WS_INCLUDES'classes/');.

Define('DIR_WS_MODULES', DIR_WS_INCLUDES'modules/');.

Define('DIR_WS_LANGUAGES', DIR_WS_INCLUDES'languages/');.

Define('DIR_WS_CATALOG_LANGUAGES', DIR_WS_CATALOG'includes/languages/');.

Define('DIR_FS_CATALOG_LANGUAGES', DIR_FS_CATALOG'includes/languages/');.

Define('DIR_FS_CATALOG_IMAGES', DIR_FS_CATALOG'images/');.

Define('DIR_FS_CATALOG_MODULES', DIR_FS_CATALOG'includes/modules/');.

Define('DIR_FS_BACKUP', DIR_FS_ADMIN'backups/');.

This post has been edited by.

Yesudo.com.

: 25 February 2004, 02:12..

Comment #126

Problems with indexing.

I have a number of oscommerce stores. I have been using OSC for about 2 years now. My experience shows that there are undocumented problems with Search Engine indexing. Go through the forums and you will find the odd person claiming success with indexing. Different versions offer up various undocumented unclear solutions to the numerous problems. If you are concerned about indexing and how to make your iPage site Search Engine friendly then OSC will offer a serious challenge.

If you find it let me know...

Comment #127

Ditto on the indexing problem. For my store, I added code to the admin area to allow you to enter custom titles, descriptions and keywords as well as a psudo file/folder name. I'll be using the psudo-names with mod-rewrite to give the category & product filepaths even more relavence..

I made a few enhancements to one of the contributions. It collects the appropriate info & inserts it into the catalog pages. I'm working on making my iPage site very Google friendly. I'm still working on it however. But I'll let you know how it works out..

My e-commerce iPage site is at.

Http://www.your-cosmetics.com.

The keywords I'm aiming for are "alexandra de markoff", makeup and cosmetics & a bunch of other sub-categories. I've got our lipstick tags working and a few others if you're interested in taking a look..

If there is enough interest in rolling this into the engine, I'll add it to the contributions, though it would save me some trouble if it were to be added to the existing code base.

(hint) I could make the mod-rewrite stuff a switch kind of like the search-engine friendly URL stuff..

The one worry I have about this customization is that when the next release comes out, I'll have to integrate all of my changes (a lot of changes) back into the code base. As a professional engineer, I have to say that the code lacks modularity or lacks the granularity that would make plug & play code a snap..

BTW, to address the original poster's comment, if you're not a software engineer, you may have trouble some some of the contributions. Particularly, Verisign's PayFlow pro. I went through adding this feature to my server (a shared machine) and it took me three days to finally find the way that worked for me...

Comment #128


This question was taken from a support group/message board and re-posted here so others can learn from it.