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First question I got is Business domain name and iPage web hosting with front page upload? Many thanks for any answer or 2. My other question... I'm having trouble understanding a simple table behavior in HTML. If you can help me, I'd greatly appreciate it!!.

Here is my code:.

<table border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="600">.

<tr>.

<td width="487"> asdf asdf asdf asdf asd asdf asdf asdf asdf</td>.

<td width="107" align="right">.

<img src="image2.jpg" width="105" height="25" border="0">.

</td>.

</tr>.

<tr>.

<td colspan="2" valign="top">.

<br>.

<table>.

<tr>.

<td>&nbsp;</td>.

</tr>.

<tr>.

<td valign="top">.

<p>The ispDesignEXPERT-Exemplar System software includes support for ispLSI, ispMACH, MACH, GAL, and PAL device design.</p>.

</td>.

</tr>.

</table>.

</td>.

</tr>.

</table>.

This is a 2x2 table where row 2 has colspan=2 and a table (1 col x 2 row) embedded in it. In the upper right cell is an image placeholder of specific size (105w x 25h) and aligned right..

THe problem is, when I try to position the location of the column divider in row 1, it acts bizzare in IE5.5 on WinNT (can't speak for other platforms or versions since I don't have them.).

1. If I put a width value on both columns the align right doesn't work..

2. If I take out the width then the division kind of floats and doesn't stay in one spot. This is normal except the text in column 1 wraps prematurely, even though there is space between the end of line and the image column to fit the text (this may not occur with the text supplied but does with the text I actually have in my version.).

3. I put it all into Dreamweaver 4 and it too doesn't let me position the width of the column 1, it kind of rubberbands to whereever it wants to, not where I specify by dragging it..

4. If I take out either the image or the embedded table, all works fine in Dreamweaver. I drag the column border and it positions where I drag it..

5. Dreamweaver assigns widths to both columns in the code when I drag the column divider between them (in layout mode) to a new location. But the values don't add up to be the width of the table. (I hate Dreamweaver!!!!!).

I sense I'm violating some basic table rule but I don't know what it is. Please help!.

Bruce..

Comments (9)

I would like to know the answer too. Anyone here know what is the answer. I'll do some research and get back to you if I discover an good answer. You should email the people at iPage as they probably can help you..

Comment #1

I was just curious, if you don't mind me and all my Q's - what is asdf and how does it work in a table? I've never seen it before...thanks!..

Comment #2

JJ,.

"asdf " was used within the example table text as a quick and dirty place holder for real text. It doesn't "mean" anything, except that Bruce chose to type garbage with his left hand. He could have just as well used his right "jkl; "..

Whatever is between <td> and </td> is the contents of the cell...

Comment #3

You used unmatched width values (in your example), table width=600 but your cells only add up to 594, you create a small problem. The right top cell is actually 113 pixels wide but the width=107 attribute will prevent content from moving past that point in the cell..

Use cell attributes like:.

Align=left/right/center.

Valign=top/middle/bottom.

<td width=xxx nowrap> to prevent premature wrapping of text but you must use <br> tags to break your text, which might not always look good in different resolutions..

Compliment your <img src=image.gif.

Align=right border=0.

>.

With <img src=image.gif align=right border=0.

Hspace=0 vspace=0.

> to butt an image against a cell wall or other content/elements..

Comment #4

Most of the times I've seen the align=right in the img tag gets messed up in the browser. it adds a space in the table cell that looks funky...

Comment #5

Thanks for all your replies. I'll try to answer questions/comments below (you will have to add the spaces that this forum editor chomps out to make it look right):.

Here is a pic of what I wanted.

|||.

| crumb / trail / text | pic |.

|||.

| || |.

| | (spaceer...just &nbsb; ) | |.

| || |.

| | more text here | |.

| | | |.

| || |.

||.

The crumb trail is a text string that will vary in length. The pic is to be "right" aligned and it's table cell I want of fixed width. The embedded table has no width constraints. What instead happens is the border between the top two cell columns does not go where I tell it. In IE5.5 (and likely all others) it will divide where it wants to. It places a significan gap to the left and right of the picture.

But the arbitrary location of that border causes the text to wrap in the crumb trail. If I specify a width for the second column or both columns, then the picture does not align to the right and the width is not what I specify. If I leave out the width, it aligns right but there's this big gap to the left of the pic between it and the column border (between the two columns.).

The widths I supplied in my example code were taken from Dreamweaver...it can't do the math, I can. It came up with those values after I drag the border between the columns in Layout mode. See my orig. post item #5 above..

I am not trying to be anal about table constraints. The outer table must be a fixed size. The cell holding the picture must be fixed width to allow the crumb trail maximum space, and it must be aligned right. Other than that, it's no constraints..

There was a &nbsp; in my code in that embedded table, row 1..

"asdf asdf" etc was just place holders. Rock was correct in his response. The real text is a crumb trail text as explained above..

I can't use "nowrap" on the crumb trail cell since if it grows long, it pushes the pic out beyond the width of the iPage website width (beyond the header graphics, etc) and looks bad..

Kevin suggests using image alignment attributes. I have never figured out the value of them except when trying to position text relative to the picture. I have no text in the cell with the pic so not sure the value of your suggestion..

My testing shows if I remove the inner table all behaves correctly. But the table must be there..

I should also state that all this exists as part of a header segment of code that gets replicated on all our iPage website pages. The body of the pages vary in content so I can't constrain the inner table to a width...it depends on the page I'm on..

Thanks for any help on this. I'm looking for a simple rule I'm violating and any workaround to get as close to what I'm after as possible...

Comment #6

Kevin, how's this:.

I tested with NS 6.1, 4.7, and IE 5.5..

There were two keys for stability. The first was defining a numeric width for the inner table. Neither Netscape version needs it, but IE goes funky if it does not know the precise width of the inner table. Using a percentage (eg "90%" or "100%") does not work, and causes the first row of the outer table to act funky. Netscape behaves properly with no width, with a numeric width, or with a percentage width..

This is not a "rule you are overlooking". It is funkiness relating to nested tables, probably deep in IE code..

The second is a rule. Be careful with where you put the carriage returns (not <BR>, but actual line break in the HTML source itself). They are interpreted as a space character. Scoutt mentioned one of the symptoms of allowing misplaced carriage returns. For precision placement, elements desired to be at the end of a line should end with a <BR> (as I did at the end of the <img> tag). In this case I could have followed the <img> tag immediately with a </td>, and it would have accomplished the same thing.



You do not need the bgcolor declaration within the inner table. I put it there so that I could see the where this table actually was..

I gave up on web-page building software a long time ago. It is probably much better now than in 1997, but I was frustrated when it would do "wrong" stuff. So I got in the habit of hand-coding everything, since I would always have to go into the generated source anyway to get it right. I'm sure this makes me a "fogey" (and quite possibly anal), but it does give me complete control, and over time I have built up the knowledge to use the control well..

I suspect you are fighting DreamWeaver, and DreamWeaver is fighting with the IE nested-table bug. You will likely have to alter the page DreamWeaver builds. Good luck...

Comment #7

Wel this is what I did and it seemed to keep the picture in the spot you want and lets the crumb trail cell get as big as it needs to and wraps...

Comment #8

Scoutt,.

Your solution behaves itself in IE 5.5 and NS 6.1. However, NS 4.7 doesn't like the mixture of of % and numeric widths for the columns. It begins acting like IE under Bruce's DreamWeaver example..

Also, remember the <br> or </tr> immediately following the <img> tag. That way you eliminate the trailing space character you mentioned previously...

Comment #9

As you are probably correct, I don't have NS at work so I couldn't test it. that is pretty much the code I use (not the % & numeric in the widths) and don't get the spaces in the cells with images. although I ain't doubting you, I just haven't had the problems you mentioned and I don't use software to write with either. I was talking about the align="right" in the image tag itself. but you could be right..

I do think however that it is a good rule of thumb to just follow by. thanks for the heads up Rock...

Comment #10


This question was taken from a support group/message board and re-posted here so others can learn from it.